GiveWell spoke with Adam Gelb, the director of the Pew Public Safety Performance Project, a branch of the Pew Charitable Trusts. The conversation centered on criminal justice reform and included discussion of the work of the Pew Public Safety Performance Project and the current demand for criminal justice reform. Mr. Gelb also discussed swift and certain sanctions – an intervention that had previously been recommended to GiveWell – as well as motivational interviewing and cognitive behavioral therapy, both of which are possibly transformational methods for the criminal justice system.